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How to help Secondfork: VCards and info we track, with disclosures
#1
*** UPDATED: My Email is greg@secondforkrecords.com


If you aren't familiar, a vCard is a type of electronic business card.  The advantage of using them is that the people you give them to don't have to re-type all of that information into whatever systems they use to keep records.  Which not only saves work but reduces the chances of error.   These days there is a lot of information you MIGHT choose to put in there, like Twitter handles, website addresses, a photo, but its not required.  Put in what you feel comfortable with.

For Whetstone, I would very much appreciate receiving a vCard  for every writer,  performer, and person or organization. Including those that may not be receiving royalities but do deserve credit for engineering and such.  Sending us vCards is NOT required. But I would sure appreciate it.   You can create them for free at places like: 

http://www.x3internetsolutions.com/vcard_generator.php

or   

http://www.mobilefish.com/services/vcard/vcard.php

Then you can just email them to us.  x3internetsolutions gives you the opportunity to create a card with more information than Mobilefish. You can consider that as either a good thing or a bad thing. Again, enter what you feel comfortable with. But please allow me to tell you what it's used for, and also disclose how its stored.

I'd like to say that if you don't keep Secondfork updated on your contact information then its your fault for missing any royalties. But it doesn't exactly work that way. By current law if we lose contact with a writer or artist,  we still have to set aside any royalties that are due to them in the event that they (or their heirs) eventually show back up.  So since I REALLY don't want to be in that situation, we'd like more that just one way to get in contact.  You might forget to tell us when you move, but hopefully you won't change all of your address, phones and emails all at once.    That's why we'd like a fair bit of contact information for anyone receiving royalties.    

At tax time, we also have to protect ourselves from any questions from the IRS regarding royalties that are subtracted from the business's gross income.  Again just for those receiving royalties, to please the government we need your Social Security Number or IPI number from a Performance Rights Organization like BMI, SOCAN, or ASCAP.   Not having to give out your SSN to a label, publisher or co-writer is one reason to join one of those organizations.  

We don't really want more personal details, but birth year does come into play for anyone under 18 (there is one artist in that category this time). It's also applicable for copyright but we're not asking for or administering publishing for anyone this time around so its not really needed.  

That brings up the citizenship question. It turns out that post 911 its not as easy to send money electronically to people out of the country.  If you live in Canada or the U.K., it may be easiest for checks to be physically mailed and you may need to open a U.S. Dollars bank account. 

In addition to keeping information about songs, we keep a talent and business contacts database.  If  a drummer, studio, publisher or etc. is needed - that's where we look first.   We track "Main Talent", "Secondary Skill", "Music Genre", "Music Union" and affilliations as applicable.   So if you're wondering what to put in the "title" field of your  business card ... you might consider that.

Today, all of this information goes into specialized software with a local database that is not web accessible.    Questions?
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#2
Questions:
1. Just so I'm certain. Regarding: IPI #. I am registered with ASCAP but Linda is not. I will be sending in info to ASCAP shortly to get the "Publisher" Portion of our PRO finished. (Tax Return came in YAY!) So would we need to submit my IPI # and Linda's SS#? as well as our Publishing IPI with ASCAP?

2. Mechanical Rights vs Creator and/or writers. Since we will be both writers and publishers, can you elaborate a bit so we can get things in order for example if I need to set up a checking account listed under LinMar? When I checked in with State of Florida re: LLC licensure, they quoted a price of (wait for it...) $900.00. This sounds absurd to me so I'm still researching as I did not think it would be such a huge amount of $$. Any in sights so we can get our "House In Order" would be appreciated.

Our apologies if this is confusing. When we started this we actually were trying to keep it as simple as possible along the lines of a structure similiar to Carol King and her husband, or a Rogers & Hammerstein thing. (one does lyrics one does music) then along comes all the other stuff from sync licensing in YouTube, to Internet Store fronts and whoa! Mess.

We still want to keep our musical affairs as simple as possible. And everything I read just seems to be more complicated than necessary but what do I know?

Thanks.

Marty & Linda
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#3
Marty, some of your questions are shading into the area of opinion and advice - in other words dangerous things to ask me on my best day. But for whatever its worth: I wouldn't create a publishing company at all. You won't make a dime less as writers, and the complexity it adds to any deal might be the kiss of death in your career.

Sure, in Beethoven's day true music publishers (and resulting performances) were the only way to get music out there. After recordings came out though... its been a continuously shrinking role. And as publishers stretched themselves to stay afloat, the notion of what a publisher does to bring value gets blurry IMO.

It was somewhat different in the Carol King/Tin Pan Alley days. But the publishing business was dying even as Elton John got there fifty years ago. His boss Dick James Publishing invested heavily in Dwight's RECORDINGS as a way to survive as the publishing industry contracted. The British Invasion breathed in a lot of temporary cash, but it was really artist discovery, not selling music that paid the bills. There are no publishers left in Tin Pan Alley today.

They do make money from their catalog, but as far as I understand, Word publishing is primarily engaged in doing what Dick James did with Elton John years ago: They are in the business of developing artist/writers and the deals they give are 360 deals. Very few "single song deals" where a writer sells them a song. They do get involved with matchmaking writers and artists - buts it's generally about co-writing, especially around Nashville.

Bottom line - maybe, if you have more to offer in terms of skills, service or industry contacts. But those would be what you are offering; not your status as a publisher. Just my two cents.
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#4
Hello Greg,
I just sent you one of each to you. Can let me know if it was done correctly as I'm a bit unsure if I was successful so please let me know how it went. God bless!

Jordan
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#5
(04-26-2016, 05:52 PM)gdball Wrote: Marty, some of your questions are shading into the area of opinion and advice - in other words dangerous things to ask me on my best day.  But for whatever its worth:  I wouldn't create a publishing company at all. You won't make a dime less as writers, and the complexity it adds to any deal might be the kiss of death in your career.

Sure, in Beethoven's day true music publishers (and resulting performances) were the only way to get music out there.   After recordings came out though... its been a continuously shrinking role.  And as publishers stretched themselves to stay afloat, the notion of what a publisher does to bring value gets blurry IMO.

It was somewhat different in the Carol King/Tin Pan Alley days. But the publishing business was dying even as Elton John got there fifty years ago.  His boss Dick James Publishing invested heavily in Dwight's RECORDINGS as a way to survive as the publishing industry contracted. The British Invasion breathed in a lot of temporary cash, but it was really artist discovery, not selling music that paid the bills. There are no publishers left in Tin Pan Alley today.

They do make money from their catalog, but as far as I understand, Word publishing is primarily engaged in doing what Dick James did with Elton John years ago: They are in the business of developing artist/writers and the deals they give are 360 deals.  Very few "single song deals" where a writer sells them a song. They do get involved with matchmaking writers and artists - buts it's generally about co-writing, especially around Nashville.  

Bottom line - maybe, if you have more to offer in terms of skills, service or industry contacts.  But those would be what you are offering; not your status as a publisher. Just my two cents.
Okay cool and thanks... seems like the rule book gets changed every other day.  That's why I thought I should ask.

Marty.

Now as to those VCards... Do I create separate VCards for Linda and for me?  I was looking at the website you posted and it seems that it only allows for one "Name."  Again I don't want to gum up the works over complicating things and/or omission of important Administrative stuff to make your life easier.  You know?  :-)

Marty
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#6
(04-22-2016, 12:37 PM)gdball Wrote: *** UPDATED: My Email is greg@secondforkrecords.com


If you aren't familiar, a vCard is a type of electronic business card.  The advantage of using them is that the people you give them to don't have to re-type all of that information into whatever systems they use to keep records.  Which not only saves work but reduces the chances of error.   These days there is a lot of information you MIGHT choose to put in there, like Twitter handles, website addresses, a photo, but its not required.  Put in what you feel comfortable with.

For Whetstone, I would very much appreciate receiving a vCard  for every writer,  performer, and person or organization. Including those that may not be receiving royalities but do deserve credit for engineering and such.  Sending us vCards is NOT required. But I would sure appreciate it.   You can create them for free at places like: 

http://www.x3internetsolutions.com/vcard_generator.php

or   

http://www.mobilefish.com/services/vcard/vcard.php

Then you can just email them to us.  x3internetsolutions gives you the opportunity to create a card with more information than Mobilefish. You can consider that as either a good thing or a bad thing. Again, enter what you feel comfortable with. But please allow me to tell you what it's used for, and also disclose how its stored.

I'd like to say that if you don't keep Secondfork updated on your contact information then its your fault for missing any royalties. But it doesn't exactly work that way. By current law if we lose contact with a writer or artist,  we still have to set aside any royalties that are due to them in the event that they (or their heirs) eventually show back up.  So since I REALLY don't want to be in that situation, we'd like more that just one way to get in contact.  You might forget to tell us when you move, but hopefully you won't change all of your address, phones and emails all at once.    That's why we'd like a fair bit of contact information for anyone receiving royalties.    

At tax time, we also have to protect ourselves from any questions from the IRS regarding royalties that are subtracted from the business's gross income.  Again just for those receiving royalties, to please the government we need your Social Security Number or IPI number from a Performance Rights Organization like BMI, SOCAN, or ASCAP.   Not having to give out your SSN to a label, publisher or co-writer is one reason to join one of those organizations.  

We don't really want more personal details, but birth year does come into play for anyone under 18 (there is one artist in that category this time). It's also applicable for copyright but we're not asking for or administering publishing for anyone this time around so its not really needed.  

That brings up the citizenship question. It turns out that post 911 its not as easy to send money electronically to people out of the country.  If you live in Canada or the U.K., it may be easiest for checks to be physically mailed and you may need to open a U.S. Dollars bank account. 

In addition to keeping information about songs, we keep a talent and business contacts database.  If  a drummer, studio, publisher or etc. is needed - that's where we look first.   We track "Main Talent", "Secondary Skill", "Music Genre", "Music Union" and affilliations as applicable.   So if you're wondering what to put in the "title" field of your  business card ... you might consider that.

Today, all of this information goes into specialized software with a local database that is not web accessible.    Questions?
Just emailed you two vCards.  One for Linda and one for me.  Both of us are LinMar but to keep info accurate I sent individual vCards.  Hope that suffices.
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#7
Perfect, thank you.
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#8
Hi. I'm thinking of joining PRS as I'm in the UK as an alternative to BMI etc. Is that OK?
Also, I've emailed a vCard. Could you please let me know if it's OK.
Many thanks
Graham
Reply
#9
Greg,I emailed you a vcard.I hope I got it right so if I didn't let me know what you need me to do and I'll try again.Thanks,Chris
Reply
#10
(04-30-2016, 04:55 PM)Graham Podesta Wrote: Hi. I'm thinking of joining PRS as I'm in the UK as an alternative to BMI etc. Is that OK?
Also, I've emailed a vCard. Could you please let me know if it's OK.
Many thanks
Graham

Sure Graham. Some countries don't even give you a choice, so by all means exercise it. Smile
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